“Design by” footer links…

This is a great conversation. Most of my clients don’t even mind about it. What they care about is how I can help them become visible on the first page of Google. Small business owners doesn’t really care about the footer link. But anyway, I think it’s a great idea to ask their permission. Your client will trust you more because you value their thoughts about it and they will see you as a very honest person to deal with.

I don’t think its a real big deal one way or the other.

A site I am working on, its current production incarnation (a static site) when you type in the keyword to guarantee a high Google hit comes back with the name of the business and the Google description is the text from their website builder’s business. That I consider bad, pretty soon I’ll replace the site and that will change. I will be including my tag in the footer.

Mark

Joost, I think the problem here is that your article doesn’t come across like what you’ve been reiterating in the comment section. In discussion, you have repeated without ambiguity that this is about “transparency.” But that doesn’t ring true in your post, which is what most people here are reacting to.
The gist of what you wrote about is why these links “annoy” you, why they should equate to discounts, and how they are sneaky SEO tactics. True, you do ask that it be discussed openly, but in the same sentence said it shouldn’t be done by default—two very different points. Of course, I don’t need to repeat the need for a more appropriate analogy than the rooftop banner.
If your post really is about transparency in contracts, how have you come to believe that this practice is devious by nature, and that this deception is common?
The matter of footer credits itself is one between designer and client. I don’t think it hurts anyone to have a footer credit, I also think the client should ultimately decide what they want and don’t want on their site. I know designers who do this and designers who don’t. I know of few designers who would walk away from a gig simply because the client didn’t want the footer credit on their site. I know of zero designers who work for clients that wouldn’t notice something like this on their site.
Also gotta disagree about functionality negating art. A Porsche is functional, it is also art, and it says “Porsche” on the trunk. Not that every website could be considered a work of art, but designers are trained professionals, commissioned for their expertise and their aesthetic, to represent the interests of their client. This is not at all unlike some 15th Century portrait artist.
And in my humble opinion, Richard, if you really feel that all art should be left solely to the paintbrush (“not Photoshop” LOL!) then I bet you are a darn good developer.

All of the work I do for my clients ends up at a discounted rate, 90% of the time. There’s never enough time in the deadline, never enough content, content handwritten when asked for digitally supplied, never enough pictures, scope creep got up and ran out of the window, alterations on top of alterations on top of alterations. I could settle for a knighthood, I could settle for payment of what the job is really worth, instead I’ll settle for a link back to my site thanks.

..unless of course someone is willing to tell me whether it will have a detrimental effect on the clients website’s positioning within the search engines, because I don’t want that to happen, as I do care and that’s why I’m here.

P.S. I don’t think it dilutes their branding.

Nice thread.

To > Joost de Valk

Ok I get your point – No I am not pissed – I read your SEO articles on WordPress and
those are great – you certainly are knowledgeable.

However, always spare something for the little guys :)

Let’s say you presented a design concept to a client, and placed a small pornographic image in the footer. I’d expect they would ask you to remove it. Likewise, if you present them with a design concept that includes a footer link back to you – if they aren’t happy about it they will ask you to remove it.

There’s nothing underhand or sneaky about this – the website owner sees it there, they don’t mind it being there, so the topic never comes up. When you say “let me know if there’s anything you want changed in this concept”, that’s asking for permission.

I’d agree that it’s a bit off if the link wasn’t present in the concept and then magically appeared one day in the live site.

From the tone of some of these discussions you’d think this was up there on the sneakiness scale with RyanAir’s “optional” credit card charges…

Of the hundreds of client’s websites I have worked on, all with our company’s name/link in the footer – not one has ever asked to have it removed. On a couple of early freelance jobs (before I added the footer link), some people went out of their way to ask me to ADD it. It saved people contacting them to get my details. When you are working with smaller local businesses, this link really helps connect you with new clients. It’s not scheming or tricking them – they wouldn’t ever “sell” that space as it would cheapen their website/brand. It is genuine networking.

Our links are always displayed on the initial proof – the link is not a surprise. We link back from the portfolio along with their name and description of what they do, great for their SEO.

Also, maybe it’s just me, but when I see a good looking website I’m always keen to know who created it and to go and see more.

what about this MOBS thing?

When I see a design or template I like, I usually check the footer to see where it came from.

To some extent it’s a reader service, but the link out part doesn’t have to be in the mix.

I find most clients are happy to help with links that benefit my business and some even
encourage them. All in moderation, though.

I guess when you stop having a wordpress blog and start ya know, actually coding and designing you cant start putting others down others :).

Mmmmm…taking advantage of the ignorance of our customer…isn’t that why they hire us?

Remember that the majority of young people today will only buy clothes where the maker/designer’s name is obvious. It’s a bit simplistic to only include examples from industry that don’t conflict with your claims.

The primary advantage in business is competitiveness, and to ignore competitive advantage for no competitive gain is foolish, unless it hurts your business, which hurts your competitive advantage. Most businesses that take moral stands do so to improve their standing (much like attributions…).

I really like the idea of a colofon. I’ve felt icky placing the attribution link on larger PR5+ websites. I don’t feel icky placing an attribution link on the smaller websites. The promotion link back from the website builder company is more than a fair trade.

I also heard of some SEO problems where webdesign companies had massive uneven backlink profiles. If you get an attribution footer link on a large directory, you get thousands of footer links.

If these footerlinks are spammy I think Google frowns on this or at least devalues lots of links.

Even though: When this topic has come up before in the Google Webmaster Forum, there is always reassurance from the bigwigs and a notion of: If you remove all these footer attribution links or start to penalize people for it, the entire web would collapse. Attribution footerlinks are as old as the internet, older than Backrub.

The benefit of a colofon is that the link turns from a low quality footerlink, into a quality editorial link inside the content area of a site. The text surrounding your link can be more descriptive, you can talk about the CMS used, W3C validation, Javascript support, Press contacts, building a page that gets linked from every footer, with enough content on it to rank and make it editorial.

Google should value these single links higher and more “votey” than massive footerlinks, but if Google gives more benefit to these legit editorial links is a second…

I’m a real estate agent and blog coach by trade, but I’ve learned enough PHP to tweak themes for small business owners and family when they need a site. I’ve never charged what my time is even worth, but most of my “clients” wouldn’t know what a fair price was anyway. I also rarely charge for hosting and sometimes even register the domain from them, so whatever money I get paid I figure I have to subtract that from my profits. I do these all more as favors in hopes that they will be more successful, but I absolutely leave the original designers link on the theme and add one of my own and that is really figured into the deal that this link is helping me a small bit. So I think the ignorance can go both ways, the client doesn’t understand the value of the link, but in my case they don’t truly understand the value of the work either. Still very good point and I hate to see the system abused.

I’m a webdesigner and place those links on all sites I do. It’s in my ‘terms & conditions’ (which my clients approve with) that it’s always at the bottom of a site I deliver, it’s their choice if they want to take it away but it’s greatly appreciated if they didn’t. So it’s up to them actually if they let it stay or not. So far, nobody removed it!

First of all, there is a plaque with the builders name on my building. Furthermore, the garage slapped sticker on my car without me noticing. If i wasn’t so lazy i’d take it off. Your point is clear, sneaking up on someone who is dependent on you and putting free advertising is a bad thing.

Saying all that, I do ask to put links on sites I build. The value of the links to me is irrelevant, the client only cares about the cost to him.
From my experience, If the client is satisfied with the site, 99% of the time he/she will gladly agree to me putting a link, not only as a courtesy, but also are proud to promote the person that built them the site they like so much.

Here in Germany we have the imprint page. You must have such a site and I always talked to my customers and said them I want a link to my site for reputation and a kind of advertising. They were always ok with it even without discount.

To put a link in the footer of a website is far more obtrusive and should not be made in my opinion because it’s the customers website and there my name or an agency’s name is not related to any offer the customer makes.

My conclusion is: Talk with the customer, don’t pay anything or give a discount, put your link on page where interested people can see it but the customers communcation to his clients is not affected.

Thanks for giving me the kick in the ass to get rid of the link. I wanted to, especially since the developer has been so exceptionally unhelpful after selling his theme. I used to think that, since this was such a common practice, that it was perhaps a rule for theme buyers. Something unwritten, but sacred, and morally reprehensible if disobeyed. Now, I’m gonna say screw that! Footer link begone!

I’m putting links on my site from now on. Its is no ones place to say that this should be this and that should be that. If it suits you the do as you please.

I agree with Leon. The analogy of the banner on the roof is ridiculous. On the roof would be a giant logo in the header. And nobody is doing that.

Allow me a couple shots at more apropos analogies.

1. You go to a store and you buy a t-shirt. The shirt has the company’s logo on it. Are you sending an invoice to the clothing company each month for you walking around with the logo on it? Of course not.

2. You buy a car. The license plate frame has the dealer’s name, city and often phone number. Is the dealer paying you a monthly rental fee for driving their advertisement around? Still no.

Nobody is having fits about either practice. The footer logo by designers is commonplace. It always has been and probably always will be, despite the rantings of a few malcontents.

Melissa pointed out the most important thing. I found a posting on Craigslist by a web design customer who had hired a “firm” that took their money and ran. I checked out their portfolio. The styles were so vastly different, both in design and coding that it was obvious one firm did not put together the sites they had listed. But without any indication of who the actual designers were, there was nothing to prevent them adding the sites to their portfolio, and then scamming potential customers, poisoning their trust in the industry.

Lastly, the logo can simply the client’s life if they happen to have hired a designer that has built them something gorgeous and successful. They don’t have to answer all of the “who designed your site?” emails if there is the – expected – link at the bottom giving them that information. I frequently want to know who designed a site when I visit one that is either very nice, or very crappy.

And this textarea background doesn’t fit the size of the actual box. When I type the text runs outside the right side of the box. You should take away the designer’s link in your footer as punishment for the CSS gaff

Any creative worker who signs his work is likely to take more pride in it and put more care into it.

Most designers do this by default for smaller websites, it is a tradition that was established long before SEO became a consideration. The benefit to the designer, if any, is organic publicity; the benefit to the client is that visitors having site-specific problems or queries are more likely to email the designer about it and not waste the client’s time.

Most importantly, however, it is a matter of goodwill; most designers will quickly agree to remove the credit if asked, but a small business owner should be aware that the designer may not, then, be as willing to give free advice and discretionary services in the future – and, seriously, pretty much all small website owners come to rely upon free advice and help from their designers.

Any “expert” who later enters the equation will probably not have a full understanding of his client’s give-and-take relationship with the designer and will probably not bother to find out if the credit link is part of the contract that the client signed. Eager to please, removing the link is an easy win for the newly introduced expert but it is a hack and could actually hurt the client – unless, of course, the new expert is going to fully replace the original designer, and is happy to provide all the same free hand-holding.

Bigger websites usually don’t have the credit link, but that is established from the start of the design process and the designers are usually getting paid a lot more than would get from smaller clients. They are completely different situations, it is wrong to transpose the conventions that have built up around one to the other.

That’s a shit analogy. It’s a tiny link for SEO and linkback purposes not a giant banner.

When some stooge installs a new muffler or services your car he puts a business sticker on your window. You want it taken off you say “don’t stick a stupid sticker on”.

saw this one TODAY, which ALSO has a footer link: http://skitch.com/merchandise/dsska/noticedtoday